Is western society really becoming secularised?

Yes it is.

Western Europe has a lot of atheists and all the other western countries are losing religion (with the US a few decades behind but still making progress).

Also consider that about a third of children leave the religion they are raised in with most of them just becoming non-religious and amongst fundamentalist sects about half of their children end up leaving with many becoming non-religious. This then carries on into the next generation resulting in even more atheists (and religion is as others have mentioned becoming more and more an "old-peoples' thing").

The Fundamentalists are increasing in number but they have had a very small increase compared to non-belief and they are mostly just taking members away from the more moderate branches of their own religion (not from those raised without religion).

The only religion that as a whole is growing is Islam which is doing so through a higher birth rate which is not sustainable (i.e. the growth will stop and Islam will follow the other religions into oblivion, Islam has not been doing very well with conversions).

Most of the groups that appear to be growing quickly (such as Buddhists) are actually losing members at about the same rate they pick them up.

From a sociological perspective I am pretty sure that the popularity of religion in the UK is declining and has been in all likelihood since the enlightenment. Only one UK census checked for religion [2001], it found that 3/4people reported being religious, 72% Christian, 3% Islam.

The social changes this country has seen in the last 60 years or so, with development of the welfare state, education system and social reform has changed the way in which we are socialised.

Pre 1944 families tended to be extended and travel was rare and so the care for others came from the community. Responsibility to teach children skills they needed for life lay on the family, and no doubt the church was a significant part of this socialisation process and a focus of community life.

Contrast this with today’s society where families are nuclear, care of extended relatives is done by the state, education is catered by the state where we are taught to be 'life long learners', in effect every 20 years or so our knowledge becomes obsolete. People travel more than ever before. A place for the community to meet and learn and 2000 year old wisdom is made redundant.

The fact these changes have occurred 'quickly' suggests that social change is dependent on the socio-political climate of the country. It may seem like a reformational steamroller towards secularism but let us not forget America was born secular in spirit as well as practice and now appears a bastion of Christian intolerance. It could be that the reason churches are empty is nothing to do with a loss of faith, but more to do with church life being pushed out of our culture. Were society to shift back people may return to their church.

As for world wide change, that will depend on whether other countries copy our method of 'modernisation' in an attempt to make themselves more prosperous. The lure towards westernism must be very great indeed and bound to cause tension in non-secular countries, the fallout of which has likely caused the east/west tensions we are experiencing.

As for evolution vs. creationism and similar debates; it may be the case that the above hostility spills over onto any forum where people are able to vent frustration of the conflict between church and state.

I choose the word conflict with its full meaning, while it is possible to have a church and state fulfilling the same roles in society, as we do, they are currently in competition for the same ground and in the UK at least the state is winning. Globally, perhaps we are feeling the backlash with the 'rise' of fundamentalism. ~ I would be interested to see whether there has been a rise or if it is media hype.

One solution that is foreseeable would be for the church to adopt a meaningful role in society, out with state jurisdiction, but I imagine most religions are rigid in hanging onto their old roles and talk of 'modernising' the church will cause schisms, all the while losing popularity. Another avenue for religion is to shape itself into our lifestyles (prayer text spam?), but this still does not address its crippled function in society.

PS

I bet the Archbishop of Canterbury was shocked at the response to his statement; I wonder if he is not used to people paying attention to the voice of the church in the UK, this event shows people are listening when it is relevant!

Yes, I do believe that western society is much more secularized now than ever before. I do believe it is happening and that it varies from country to country. I'm sure there are statistics for this. Search the internet.

There are many ever-increasing issues with religion in churches, because in their own way, they are becoming secular themselves. I think it is fair to say that they are reflective of society's opinions, since modern society is made up of people with opinions.

A side-effect? Please... until we all start communicating with each other and agreeing on common grounds, there will be no meeting of the minds and secularism will continue. We must unite as people with one cause...to bring peace to this earth.

I guess the following extract from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism sums up your question on "secularism". It's nothing to do with the internet. It has been there for so long, and it is here to stay. Only benevolent or depotic dictatorship can steer away secularism off any state to be replaced with religious jurisprudence...

"Secularism is a movement towards the separation of religion and government (often termed the separation of church and state). This can refer to reducing ties between a government and a state religion, replacing laws based on scripture (such as the Ten Commandments, The Old Testament/New Testament and Shariah law) with civil laws, and eliminating discrimination on the basis of religion. This is said to add to democracy by protecting the rights of religious minorities.

Secularism is often associated with the Age of Enlightenment in Europe, and plays a major role in Western society. The principles, but not necessarily practices, of Separation of church and state in the United States and Laïcité in France draw heavily on secularism. As in the West, the idea of separation of religion and government has also existed in India since ancient times. An attempt was made (at least on paper and laws) to build the modern Indian society on these values and to a certain extent, this attempt has been successful as well. Secular states also existed in the Islamic world during the later Middle Ages."

Motto of the French republic on the tympanum of a church. Due in part to the belief in the separation of church and state, secularists tend to prefer that politicians make decisions for secular rather than religious reasons. In this respect, policy decisions pertaining to topics like abortion, embryonic stem cell research, same-sex marriage, and sex education are prominently focused upon by American secularist organizations like, the Center for Inquiry."

For details of organisations/movements on secularism goto: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism#Secularist...

I'm not sure about numbers, but I believe we are becoming more polarized. The Christians and Muslims, and to a lesser extent the Jews, are working hard at pulling themselves away from the freethinkers. The freethinkers (atheist and agnostic, skeptic and non-theists) in turn are more vocal -- and more in print -- about their conviction that religion and belief in god is anti-intellectual, anti-science and anti-progress.

In the short term, this may cause the theists of all types to become more vocal, more demanding, more political. But in the long run, progress is inevitable, and religion will become an old-people's thing, then peter out.

Statistics will never reveal the truth, however I think when the next census is done in britain we will see a massive rise in atheists and agnostics, so much so that the governmnet wll have to reconsider their position on faith. People who would have described themselves as christian 10 years ago just because they were baptized will not do so in the next census. You can count the jedi and fsms as agnostics.

Religion is a subject which intrigues and empassions us, we are at a unique stage in our development, a kind of spiritual enlightenment. As for the archbishop, I think the newspapers are mostly to blame for the scandal.

Depends on whom you ask and how carefully you look.

A randomly selected group of ten American adults probably couldn't spell "secularism" if you lined them up and asked them to collaborate, let alone define it.

In America, there has been a resurgence of rather noisy evangelicalism, and certainly more god-talk by politicians, but this masks a phenomenon of growing disenchantment with organized religion, what one social scientist called "believing without belonging," and, of course, an increase in the number of Americans who are unchurched, non-believers, apathetics, agnostics, and atheists. There have long been significant numbers in this group in Europe.

I posted this article on a Barna Group survey on another thread this morning: http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=...

I like to say, accurately I hope, that in America, religious faith is 3,000 miles wide and (on average) half an inch deep. There are a core group of regular church-going, deeply committed, fervent believers, a larger group of people who pay half-hearted lip service to religion and attend church every so often but are religiously illiterate about the details of their chosen faith's doctrine, and an even larger group who rarely attend church or pray at all and who SAY that they believe in some vague version of a monotheistic religion but may in fact be non-believers or agnostics. They just feel too scared, too guilty, or too trapped to admit it.

Living in the UK, the only real religious 'issues' I face are those in the headlines. In my real life religion hardly ever gets mentioned, and I don't encounter it except for a few muslim friends with whom I have (disagreeing but good-natured) philosophical debates, and a born-again Christian friend who was hospitalized after a major nervous breakdown and still claims she speaks to 'God' daily.

So you could say my quiet little life in a quiet little town is very secular. I can hear church bells on a Sunday. I like them as I grew up with them.

No. Secularism has always been the policy of the US, but religions will always play a major role.

Btw, the atheist population has yet to see any growth. It remains at about 3%. And since most immigrants are religious that percentage will probably go down.

Btw, secular does not mean "free of religion."

Statistics support this, but remember 98% of statistics are made up on the spot!

I can only say that my personal view is: I believe in God but I don't believe in religion. While there are some well-intentioned persons pushing their particular "faith", often religion is perverted to nefarious ends, as in the muslim extremists who kill anyone who doesn't agree with them.